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  • I feel we need a documented discussion on how we decide to approach contradictions between the novel and the game. I have tried to deconflict this on some of the pages like Brison but there are a number of other characters and events that need to be addressed.

    Ideally someone from Ubisoft would weigh in on this but given their track record I find that highly unlikely. If we decide that the novel is the more authoritative canon then there are a lot of articles that need to be reworked.

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    • I know we discussed this in Discord last year, but I'll post here too.

      Things like Brison's, Chrysis', Deimos', Hermippos', and Lagos' deaths should be considered canon.

      We need to work out a better timeline for the events of the novel to help with game info too, I know in the novel it says things like "months/a year passed". So the novel's time's should be considered canon too. (Although there is that hiccup with the Olympics of 428 BCE being in 427)

      The novel also mentions the Battle of Sphakteria (as does Discovery Tour), and Brasidas' defeat there, but its not in the game. This battle should be canon.

      Searching for "novel" in our Discord conversation will get you our talks on timeline stuff.

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    • Would it be feasible to do articles mostly hitting the main points that both share and detailing the differences (and details) in the Behind the Scenes section?

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    • If we were to do that there would be quite a few articles where the Behind the scenes sections dwarf the rest of the content. Kassandra doesn’t even interact with characters like Lagos or Xenia in the novel so everything in the game would be relegated to behind the scenes. Dolops in the novel is split into two characters in the game. Certain events are portrayed differently enough that there isn’t as much overlap. I’m not sure that would be preferable.

      Edit: Tangent but now that I think about it the events in game and novel for the battle of Pylos would have made much more sense as the battle of Sphacteria.

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    • Just a side note: Sphakteria is where Brasidas lost his shield.

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    • Perhaps we could simply have a "which version of this event happened is ambiguous" template? My main point is not missing either versions of the events wholly, as we cannot in good faith attribute one a higher "canon weight" than the other. Normally we kinda do that, prioritising the game to the novelisation, but given the unique situation (until, presumably, Valhalla releases...) Odyssey presents, we can't.

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    • Maybe the novel events be put in the ambigcanon template while the game events are in the legacy section framed as how Layla experienced them?

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    • I would need to take some time to review the novel to really provide my answer as to what I think is the best course of action, but I remember having the impression that the novel abridged some events to the extent that they did not flow nicely, i.e. the pacing felt rushed and unnatural. There are parts of the game's version of events where it feels more realistic and therefore canonical by the sheer fact that there are more details.

      Having said that, I would be uncomfortable relegating the game as non-canon. Before reviewing the novel, I want to list the various options we have before us:

      1. Write purely off the game, treating it as canon; novel's version in BtS
      2. Write purely off the novel, treating it as canon; game's version in BtS
      3. Compromise b/w the game and novel, giving priority to the game
      4. Compromise b/w the game and novel, giving priority to the novel
      5. Have a tabber system where readers can switch between the game and novel versions
      6. Give both accounts while using a unique template explaining that which version happened is ambiguous (Zero's suggestion)
      7. Treat novel's version as actual events, treat game's version as just how Layla experiences them (Lacrosse's suggestion)

      So far, the option I have a slight preference for is (4). My main reason for this is that Ubisoft technically has said already that the novel provides the canon version of events; it is only that implementing it as such has proven less practical, to the point that it is hard to treat the novel's version as canonical unconditionally. The game's version most of the time just provides more detail which rounds out the story. Under (4), we would prioritize the novel's version in cases of irreconcilability, but in other cases, they would just supplement one another with their details. I think the potential flaw to #4 is that the resulting concoction of game and novel could ultimately be our own creation, like which details get expunged and which details get incorporated would end up being our design even if we are as precise about as it as possible.

      (5) and Zero's suggestion are also viable alternatives. Despite Ubisoft's word that the novel is the canon version, I don't think we can be faulted for taking a step back and treating both the game and novel as ambiguously canon to be safe. These two are certainly the safest course of actions. My only concern is that #5 would be too complicated to implement in terms of coding and as for Zero's suggestion, I am not sure how we would organize the two different versions in the article.

      For Lacrosse's suggestion, I'm not too comfortable because the game's version contains so much more detail that the logical conclusion based on this interpretation would be that most of what she experiences are artificially generated scenes made from nothing and not based on any memories at all. Her experience in the Animus would essentially be less exploring the memories of the Eagle Bearer and more exploring a mostly fictional world. However, an argument might be made that no matter how we spin it, it is canonical that Layla experiences interactions by Kassandra with Lagos that never took place in history, meaning that somehow her Animus or she herself really does just create false scenes to fill in broken data.

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    • I'd go for option 4 too. Option 5 does probably sound confusing. While I agree with 7, I also agree with Cyf's reasoning against 7. Can we somehow combine 4 and 7? Comprise between novel and game giving priority to the novel but also write off some alternate events and choice dialogues as the way Layla experienced it? Not in BtS but in a Legacy section explaining how Layla experienced the event or interacted with a character. Explaining Layla's experience with "something something degraded DNA sample" might be good.

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    • If we can get 5 or 6 to be formatted with out being confusing or unwieldy I’m good with those. My suggestion was an attempt to do the same without having to use a template for such. But I’m fine with waiting for Cyf to do a more thorough review of the novel before we decide. And as always we could try to reach out to someone. I once emailed Doherty and got a reply but it was about something else and he never responded to a follow up email. But someone else might have better luck.

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    • Also keep in mind guys that you aren't limited to just the options I have listed. Those were just the ones I could think of off the top of my head. If you guys happen to come up with any other suggestions, feel free.

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    • If I may throw my hat in the ring, too, there's also the Prima game guide to consider. Sure, some mission outlines are vague (eg. "Doing X or Y still completes Quest A"), so there's no real "plot" per se, but it heavily recommends that players spare Nikolaos, maintain a semi-friendship with Stentor, quietly kill the Monger so as to rescue Lagos, and promise to save Deimos and then successfully do so, to get the happy ending.

      As for the broader question, I vote for an Option 4/7 hybrid, as what seems to have been done for Pausanias. While Option 5 does sound nice, would it necessarily require writing more code? We can just copy Wookieepedia's Canon / Legends tab design and implement it here, right?)

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