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  • I think we have never had a thorough discussion about our approach to Odysseys multiple choice paths in our articles, something that you guys have undoubtedly noticed has produced complications. While there are some main story choices where the canonical decision has been given to us in the novelization, like sparing Nikolao's life, there are many sidequests which have not been mentioned in the novel at all, leaving us in the dark as to how to write about the fates of many characters in the game.

    For starters, I would like to present Wookieepedia's policy on this for reference because their solution can serve as a precedent. Unfortunately, you guys will see that it may not be ideal in our case. Star Wars has released many roleplaying games which provide players with freedom of choice. Of these, Knights of the Old Republic (KotOR) and Knights of the Old Republic II (KotOR II) are by far the most famous and the archetypal examples. The vast majority of the canon decisions made by the player characters, Revan and the Jedi Exile respectively, in the sidequests have never been confirmed, only their endings where we know they followed the light side. This does not mean that we can know that canonically, they always favoured the light side in every quest leading up to it rather than the dark side or even the neutral course. We also cannot know for certain that they didn't neglect to complete certain quests or missed some opportunities to develop closer relations with their friends.

    However, in order to ensure that their articles are high quality, it becomes ideal not to leave the outcome of quests in the game unexplained because most often this would mean main body of the article on a character introduces a problem then abruptly ends with no conclusion like it's incomplete. For the sake of writing, assumptions might need to be made as to the canon course of events even while acknowledging that it is not certain to be canon but merely an assumption.

    Therefore, I will explain the solution taken by Wookieepedia in the event that the canonical decision and outcome is unclear:

    • The article is written based on assumptions derived from the character's alignment and/or affiliation. (e.g. both Revan and the Jedi Exile are canonically known to have light side endings, so articles assume that they made the light side options in every quest)
    • The article is written based on the assumption that 100% completion is canonical unless a decision would directly contradict their alignment. (e.g. Revan & the Jedi Exile completed every quest & upgraded everything but did not do contracts for villainous groups)
      • This includes item acquisition as well. All items that are not random loot or items sold in stores are assumed to have been acquired.
    • The article assumes the best outcome for every quest that is in accordance with their alignment. (e.g. if a quest in KotOR has multiple light side outcomes, the best one is chosen; if a quest does not have a light side option, the best is chosen as long as it's not dark side)
    • There is a template specifying that a following section describes events by assuming 100% completion of the game and that the light side or dark side course of action is canon for the sake of writing (but that it might not actually be canonical).
    • There is a template specifying when this assumption ends.
    • All alternative outcomes are explained in the Behind the Scenes section (a section for OOU-content which for Wookieepedia replaces the Trivia section)

    In turning to Assassin's Creed, we must decide how applicable their approach is for us or whether we would like to use an entirely different solution. It is important to note that we have always conventionally assumed that 100% completion of the games correspond to the canonical version of the events, i.e. Ezio Auditore acquired the Armor of Brutus; Edward Kenway acquired the Mayan Armor and fully upgraded Jackdaw by the end of the game, etc. (Technically, we should have assumed that Ezio and Connor acquired one of every weapon in their games to complete their weapon racks).

    However, because Assassin's Creed lacks a morality gameplay system, it is harder to identify Kassandra's canonical alignment through a binary even if we might assume she was generally a good person.

    Moreover, because her allegiance to the Spartans and Athenians constantly vacillated depending on whether they benefited her personal goals, it is hard to make simple assumptions for the purposes of writing that she made pro-Spartan or pro-Athenian choices.

    Notwithstanding this, we might want to be cautious about assuming the "best" outcomes since the very canonical ending was not the best outcome, and sometimes the best outcome requires circumventing a cutscene and viewing every cutscene is arguably the more completionist route. A rebuttal to this might be that we would not be making such an assumption truly believing that it is canonical but only so that we are able to write the article since we would have templates clarifying this anyways.

    While the light side option takes precedence over the best outcome in Wookieepedia for Revan and the Jedi Exile, this does not necessarily mean this is the route we should take for Kassandra. There are far more cases in Odyssey than in KotOR where the kindest or most morally upright choice yields the worse outcome. If you allow Agapios a chance to redeem his brother, Neritos, Agapios will die. If you deny him this chance by insisting that his brother is irredeemable and has to die, he lives.

    There is one last problem, however, and that is our hitherto presumption of 100% completion. I am actually hesitant for once that it applies to everything in Odyssey because completion of some of the daily or mini-quests would be blatantly unethical... Just these past few days, I have failed two mini-quests because for the first, a merchant asked me to kill a rival merchant simply because that rival was out-competing him by legitimate means, and for the second, a woman asked me to kill one of her actors just because he showed up drunk at her play and messed up the performance. I have doubts that Kassandra would have no qualms about committing such petty murders of innocent people for coin. Nonetheless, it cannot be denied that I am only second-guessing it because of my presumptions of her character when objectively, completion of all quests would normally be considered canonical.

    It is therefore a given that, if we take inspiration from Wookieepedia, we face greater challenges in deciding which assumptions we should make. Otherwise, we might opt instead to leave our articles as ambiguous as possible as to which choices are made, but I've already encountered some where this would cause biographies to be abruptly cut short almost like they're incomplete. If we can, perhaps we can devise a new solution altogether.

    All thoughts on this matter are welcome. :)

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    • Maybe we can use the same system for the memory with multiple choice in Odyssey, with the two paths of the characters wrote in different tags.

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    • Francesco75 wrote:
      Maybe we can use the same system for the memory with multiple choice in Odyssey, with the two paths of the characters wrote in different tags.

      I think you meant tabs*, and I think that's actually not a bad idea!

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    • Sol Pacificus wrote:

      Francesco75 wrote:
      Maybe we can use the same system for the memory with multiple choice in Odyssey, with the two paths of the characters wrote in different tags.

      I think you meant tabs*, and I think that's actually not a bad idea!

      Yes, tabs.

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    • I think we should analyze Kassandra's personality. For example, there's a side quest where she encounters the Pythia who doomed her and her family (gave the order to throw Baby Alexios off from mount Taigetos), that quest can finish with the woman dead or with the woman alive leaving the area with her nephew.

      The question here is... What would Kassandra do? Would she kiil her? Would she spare her? To know this we must take a look to the canon choices from the main story. Her dad doomed her, but she spared him, she could fight Pythagoras but she didn't, she could have killed Lagos but instead she convinced him to leave the Cult. This means that she tends to be aggresive but merciful.

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    • One of the things we need to address is how to write about stuff that happened in the novel but not in the game. For a few characters I write the novel events in their bio but then in the legacy section I write what Layla experiences in her less than accurate simulation. Lagos would be an example of why we need this.

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    • Lacrossedeamon wrote: One of the things we need to address is how to write about stuff that happened in the novel but not in the game. For a few characters I write the novel events in their bio but then in the legacy section I write what Layla experiences in her less than accurate simulation. Lagos would be an example of why we need this.

      I'm not sure why this is a question. The novel is the more authoritative source than the game in this case, but we largely should be fusing both accounts together unless the novel would clearly override the game in which case it does.

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    • Man, all of these could have been avoided if Ubisoft could just introduce a sort of new mode as to which decisions made is considered the canon one, making it alot of easier for us editors XD

      I would be inclined to agree with Francesco's idea, but it would come with it's own difficulties as well. It could work if there are only 2 or 3 paths, but what if within each paths is further split into more? It would make it a lot of more complex for what it is originally intended to be.

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    • I think different tabs presenting the outcome stemming from each possible decision - as suggested by Francesco75 - would be by far the best course of action. That way, we do not need to take sides or make assumptions about What would Kassandra have done?. Because the point is that in the end we do not know what would Kassandra have done.

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    • I do not think the Wookieepedia approach would fit, as it is full of assumptions that we simply cannot make in good conscience, especially with how the endings play out. While I wouldn't that approach in things we know the end results proper (having a Behind the Scenes with the story as presented in other paths, which could be appropriate with things like Deimos' fate), it just would be to presumptuous to do so with others.

      I think Francesco75's idea holds merit, at least with quest results, separating in tabs what may or may not have happened. Then again this seems a bit counter to our current, more encyclopedic style...

      Perhaps we could just have the introduction and set ups of the articles and have multiple quest results as part of Legacy, described as part of the Layla's simulation?

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    • XOdeyssusx wrote:
      Man, all of these could have been avoided if Ubisoft could just introduce a sort of new mode as to which decisions made is considered the canon one, making it alot of easier for us editors XD

      I would be inclined to agree with Francesco's idea, but it would come with it's own difficulties as well. It could work if there are only 2 or 3 paths, but what if within each paths is further split into more? It would make it a lot of more complex for what it is originally intended to be.

      This is actually an excellent point that I hadn't even considered. I'm not sure to what extent a character's multiple choice paths could branch out to so many possibilities that Francesco's suggestion isn't sustainable. That would indeed pose a problem if we run into it. Can you think of an example?

      Cristophorus35 wrote: I think we should analyze Kassandra's personality. For example, there's a side quest where she encounters the Pythia who doomed her and her family (gave the order to throw Baby Alexios off from mount Taigetos), that quest can finish with the woman dead or with the woman alive leaving the area with her nephew.

      The question here is... What would Kassandra do? Would she kiil her? Would she spare her? To know this we must take a look to the canon choices from the main story. Her dad doomed her, but she spared him, she could fight Pythagoras but she didn't, she could have killed Lagos but instead she convinced him to leave the Cult. This means that she tends to be aggresive but merciful.

      I know you guys seem to be uncomfortable about making assumptions as to her choices, but I am very open to this idea suggested by Cris as well. The reason is because, building off of Odeyssus's concern that Francesco's idea might be unsustainable if there are too many pathways, we might have to resign to this. I am wondering also if there are cases where certain outcomes just make far more sense than others.

      By the way, a question we haven't discussed so far: are we comfortable with assuming 100% completion in general? Or are there exceptions to be made here? As I explained before some of the daily quests require Kassandra to commit some unethical actions, like murdering people for petty reasons because they have a bounty on their heads. It might not be appropriate of us to assume this is out-of-character when objectively, normally we wouldn't second guess the canonicity of it. I'm also not sure if daily quests are entirely randomized.

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    • Wait... so it's been a couple of weeks, where are we going with this discussion now? xD

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