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Kassandra and Alexios

I did research into Greek history and there is no historical records of female heroines except for gods, not even demi-gods, in spartan culture the only way a woman could be given a headstone when she died was to die during childbirth because that was her dying in service to the state and the only reason women had a vote in spartan culture was to give there house a vote cause there husbands were away fighting wars. In Athenian culture women had no rights they could not vote, go to plays, or speak without the permission of men, women in all greek cultures were not allowed to compete in or even attend Olympics games. So it just doesn’t fit well to me yet when you go onto Assassin’s Creed Wikia they refuse to acknowledge any of this and say the developers have said that Kassandra is the Canonical Character because she’s the person that is being followed in the book yet when you look at many other novelizations they have followed other people other then the characters you played like Blackbeard, Haytham Kenway, Elise de La Serre, and Henry Greene so i dont see her being the canonical character as a good reason to wipe Alexios completly from being the main character in the game. So I feel what ever information you guys add to Kassandra's page it should also be added to Alexios' page for both to be seen as the main character. unsigned comment by AaronFireBird1 (talk · contr)

It's been confirmed that both characters exist in the game. However, the official novelization lists Kassandra as the canonical character and Alexios as her younger brother. XOdeyssusx (talk) 02:45, October 1, 2018 (UTC)
It's been confirmed that she is the main character of the book is all the fact that she is an older sister has not been confirmed she could still be the younger sister we wont know for sure till the book comes out and we read it. unsigned comment by AaronFireBird1 (talk · contr)
There are a number of people who has received an early copy of the game and based on the gameplays I have seen so far, they did show Kassandra as the older sibling. There also people who have read the novelization, just not officially released to the public. Also, on a sidenote, please sign off your posts at the end with ~~~~ XOdeyssusx (talk) 03:05, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

The gameplay you have seen is because people have decided to play as said character. as for the book pages you and i have not seen it so we cant confirm for sure but i will believe it when i see. Until then i have to go on facts and the facts point to Alexios being the canonical character for the game based on historical data. but im not asking for him to be seen as better the Kassandra cause thats not the case. i just want them to be seen as equal and am asking that the information be shared equally betweek there respective pages. i dont believe thats asking to much at all its asking for equality. AndyC89 (talk) 03:14, October 1, 2018 (UTC)AndyC89

I didn't notice earlier that you already posted this message on Kassandra's talk page as well. I will direct you to the response I already gave over at Alexios' talk page. In addition to that, I would like to clarify that while I understand the sentiment for equality between the two characters, the aim of this wiki is to document the canonical lore, or in other words, the true story of Assassin's Creed. This canonical, the "true" story, cannot have both Kassandra or Alexios as the main character of Odyssey. It has to be one or the other despite the fact players can have fun pretending the non-canonical one is the actual hero. In this case, Ubisoft has declared through the novel that Kassandra is the canonical character lore-wise who experienced the events of Odyssey that the player will play, so we have no choice but to be honest and give her the status as the heroine.
I also believe I explained this a bit already on "Alexios"' talk page, but historical facts has no bearing on what actually happened in this fictional world as much as it should stay true to history as much as possible. We've all been a bit disappointed at some radical deviations from real history (e.g. I, for one, object to Sun Yat-sen being a Templar as a dishonor to his historical values), but we are still forced to document the series' position as it is decided by Ubisoft. Furthermore, I don't think Kassandra's role as a heroine necessarily contradicts this history because for one, Spartan women, although still with low status, were allowed and encouraged to be athletic, and secondly, her deeds as a hero takes place when she is a stateless exile, not as a woman bound by Spartan law. Sol Pacificus(Cyfiero) 04:22, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

Kassandra after Odyssey

We know by now that Kassandra stayed alive for over 2300 years thanks to the Staff of Hermes but I'm still curious, what did she do in the intervening time between the conclusion of the ancient side and the modern-day ending of AC:Odyssey? Has Ubisoft released any such information? Are there any theories as to how she influenced parts of history, if at all? SkyGuy-Let's chat! 00:21, November 3, 2018 (UTC)

Born in Sparta vs born in Pitana

I'll have to check one I get home but I think the novel states she was born in Pitana. Don't know if this is a hard contradiction from the game as the house you reclaim is definitely in Sparta proper. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 03:28, November 13, 2018 (UTC)

Though Pitana and other villages in Lakonia are locate away from Sparta, they are still part of Sparta in some sense since if I recall correctly, the city-state was formed from the four villages, including Pitana. If the novel does state she was born in Pitana, does it mention anything about them moving to the house in the ouskirts of the city?XOdeyssusx (talk) 03:41, November 13, 2018 (UTC)
Novel does say she was born in Pitana and that’s where the house was and that’s the same house she reclaims when she comes back. However the game depicts it like smack dab in the middle of Sparta proper. Don’t know if we should change the info box to say Pitana instead of Sparta for place of birth.Lacrossedeamon (talk) 14:12, November 17, 2018 (UTC)


Preview containing spoilers

Hello

I was just browsing Wiki when preview of this article (including date of character's death) appeared on the borderside. Since such information is a major story spoiler, I suggest that either

1. This information should be removed from preview of the article

or

2. Preview of this article should not appear on random pages.



Thanks

Minitaur2000 (talk) 04:08, November 28, 2018 (UTC)

Birthdate and age of the Eagle Bearer

There is some conflicting information on the birthdate and age of the Eagle Bearer, so I though it might help to summarize what we know from then ovel and the game(s) (Assassin's Creed: Odyssey and Assassin's Creed: Rebellion): 

  • In Assassin's Creed: Rebellion, the bio of both Kassandra and Alexios states that the older sibling was seven when the younger sibling was born and when the events on Mount Taygetos took place. The novel confirms that Kassandra was seven at the time of the events on Mount Taygetos and also gives a date: 451 BC.
  • The quest 'A Mother's Prayers' in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey mentions that 17 years have passed since the Eagle Bearer saw his/her mother. In the novel, however, Myrrine states that 20+ years have passed. 
  • When we start the game in Kephalonia, it is 431 BC. This is shown explicitly. The novel also states that 20 years have passed since the events on Mount Taygetos (which in the novel took place in 451 BC).
  • The reunion of Myrinne and the Eagle Bearer takes places ca. 428 BC. The game nor the novel explicitly state this, but historically Pericles died in (autumn) 429 BC, so we have some notion of when the reunion likely took place. The novel also mentions that one year passes between leaving Athens and arriving on Naxos (the cult hunts the Kassandra and the Adrestia). 
  • The battle of Amphipolis (leading to the deaths of Brasidas and Kleon) at the end of the game historically took place in 422 BC. 


In conclusion, there is a six year difference between the novel and the game, caused by the discrepancy between the novel and the game as to how much time has passed when the reunion takes place: in the novel it is 23 years (20 years have passed in the beginning and the reunion takes place three years later) and in the game it is 17 years.  

So, doing some calculations, we can say this about the birthdate and age of the Eagle Bearer in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey:

  • Following the information of the novel, Kassandra is 27 at the start of the game, about 30 when reuniting with Myrrine and about 36 at the end of the game, which would put her birthdate at 458 BC. 
  • Following the information of the game, the Eagle Bearer is 24 at the time of the reunion with Myrinne (7 years old during the events at Mount Taygetos + 17 years have passed), and therefore about 21 at the start of the game and about 30 at the end of the game, so following this information, the Eagle Bearer's birthdate is ca. 452 BC and the events on Mount Taygetos would have taken place in ca. 445 BC. 


Ryshenar (talk) 17:28, March 28, 2019 (UTC)

We actually plan to add both dates as possible birthdates for both Kass and Alexios with a note mentioning the game and novel discrepancy. We just haven’t got around to doing it just yet. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 17:43, March 28, 2019 (UTC)

Kassandra and Alexios aren't full siblings?

I'm a little confused about the half-sibling stuff. Is it from the novel? The game states otherwise.

See THIS SCREENSHOT, for one example.  Uli Talk 02:20, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

Simplify referencing

I don't know if it have new rules for referencing, but I find a bit long to referencing every information of the same game by every mission. I understand to separate the information from the main game and from DLC or novelization, but referencing every paragraph with the name of a different mission make the referencing list a bit long. I think it will be more clear if we assemble all the mission reference under the AC: Odyssey if they are from the main game and from their respective DLC if not.Francesco75 (talk) 14:14, July 27, 2019 (UTC)

That sounds like a downgrade for the reference section. I know sometimes it may become a bit longer, but removing the quest names results in things becoming less easily verifiable and thus contradicting why we have references in the first place.
We can always do what they do on the Star Wars wiki if the list becomes too long. But as the reference section isn't too long yet, and not longer than the reference section on the Assassin's Creed: Odyssey page, I think we're fine for now. Kennyannydenny (talk) 18:53, July 27, 2019 (UTC)
I understand but Odyssey have over 600 missions. The list will be too long and we must remake many pages as Ezio, which as only 81 references from AC2 and 73 for Brotherhood. I want to be sure if it is a rule or not?Francesco75 (talk) 21:28, July 27, 2019 (UTC)
As far as I am aware of, there is no rule in place for such kind of things. However, no one says we need to source all the 600 missions in Odyssey article. We can just simply source the important ones such as main Memory articles and other sources (Database, codices etc). But from what I know, Wikipedia has an equally or even longer list of references so I don't think it matters as much. XOdeyssusx (talk) 02:09, July 28, 2019 (UTC)
The reality is that it defeats the purpose of sourcing if they are not precise enough to be helpful to the readers and other editors in locating the source of a statement. If anything, then, the fact that Odyssey has as many missions as it does reinforces the necessity of narrowing citations to specific missions. Otherwise, it would be impossible for editors to verify the citations because they may have to search through the entire game depending on the fact they are checking. This is especially the case when discussing lore and not just reciting events. If the list becomes too long, we can always solve the issue with a scrollbox. Sol Pacificus(Cyfiero) 08:43, July 28, 2019 (UTC)
As Sol said, simplifying our references somewhat defeats the point of having a referencing system at all. I also do not see how or why the referencing list being long is an issue - a long article having a long list of references is a sign that the article is well-sourced. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 16:05, July 28, 2019 (UTC)

For 100% confirmation...

Where it says she was a traveling mercenary in the second paragraph and the citation number 3 is made, what part of the Assassin's Creed: The Essential Guide does it say that? Do we have a screenshot of those words with a page number? One of the admins told me there were other media sources confirming her as the canon player choice besides the inconistant tie-in novel and Dumont who wasn't specific about which choice is canon with the game. Was this it, or are there more? Just want to remove all doubt in my mind and clear it up for the nay-sayers. Christengo (talk) 15:58, November 17, 2019 (UTC)

Drop it dude. Kassandra is canon. --Revan's Exile (talk) 17:42, November 17, 2019 (UTC)

In the book, yes. But in the game how do we know for sure??? The doubt and speculation still lingers in many people's minds. I ain't looking to get blocked or anything, but it you're side-stepping all my questions with dismissive and deflective preconception rather than actual proof. Questions I think a lot've us would like to know. I love the series, and I enjoy Odyssy. I want to complete that love with this clarification for not just me, but everyone else who's doubtful. Christengo (talk) 00:22, November 18, 2019 (UTC)

Doesn't matter if you have questions. Fact is Kassandra is the misthios, like you have been told numerous times. Get over it. Move on. --Revan's Exile (talk) 00:57, November 18, 2019 (UTC)

Legit questions that deserve answers. Because the ones given here aren't definitive. Otherwise, this wiki might as well be considered inaccurate. Just BECAUSE isn't a real reasoning to the answer. Bare with me, dude. Help me help you. Christengo (talk) 01:40, November 18, 2019 (UTC)

It is fact that Kassandra is the misthios. It is fact Alexios is Deimos. Accurately protraying that doesn't make this wikia inaccurate. What would make this wikia inaccurate would be to portray Alexios as the misthios. Your questions don't matter because they have no bearing on the factual evidence being presented. --Revan's Exile (talk) 02:01, November 18, 2019 (UTC)

And I'm saying that Dumont does, but he never gave a definitive answer as to who's canon to the game in contrast to who's canon for the book. And the book itself has far too many inconsistancies to be taken as canon, not to mention the fact that it's hardly likely that Kassandra would get Spartan training as a child, much less being able to compete against other men in the olympics. Despite her superhuman strength and other whisical elements in the game. I'm still waiting on YOUR factual evidence. Christengo (talk) 02:40, November 18, 2019 (UTC)

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this and step in. So... Kassandra and Alexios both appear in Rebellion and are given the same bio to show Abstergo's uncertainty in who was who. However there is a sequence that is a lead into Odyssey's first DLC which features Natakas as Darius's surviving child. This implicitly supports Kassandra as the Eagle-Bearer. She is also making a cameo of some sort in Brotherhood of Venice. Starting with issue 56 of the Official Collection Kassandra is also presented as the Eagle Bearer there.

The questions you raise are valid however. Any discrepancy between the novel and the game can tentatively be blamed on Layla's Animus. Any discrepancy between either of those and actual history can firmly be blamed on Ubisoft. I will note that for you Olympics example that even playing as Alexios is ahistorical because we IRL know who won the Pankration that year and it wasn't even Sparta.

If there were certain story and gameplay differences between which sibling was chosen things might be different. But as it is now, no. We aren’t a gameplay or walkthrough focused wiki; we are written with an IU perspective and that necessitates a singular canon. Lacrossedeamon (talk) 06:23, November 18, 2019 (UTC)

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