Talk:Alexios

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Canon protagonist for ACOD: Alexios or Kassandra?

Which choice between the male or the female protagonist is the canon one? I heard a rumor that the discarded choice will come back as an antagonist later in the game, so from a Wikipedian perspective we will have to make a choice for the articles... since Alexios is the one featured on the cover art and in the trailer, I propose to settle for Alexios for now. Until Ubi clarify the matter at some point later.Maxattac (talk) 22:19, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

Players choose between Kassandra or Alexios to have as the protagonist, and regardless who they pick, the dialogue options are still the same. Like how Mass Effect has a male and female Commander Shepard, seems Ubi is following suit. And this has been confirmed by Ubi and by Scott Phillips, the Game Director for Odyssey. I admit I'm unsure how we'll address pronouns in Odyssey's plot summary, but I think our best bet is to use "the Spartan", as it'll cover both characters. -- Darman (talk) 22:56, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

It will also be interesting how will they reference them (probably "spartans") and choices we made with them (in dialogs) in future games and other following media, when it wont be possible who killed some person, done something,... Kulurak (talk) 06:51, June 12, 2018 (UTC)

     Can we make a share page for Alexios and Kassandra under the name of "the eagle" as they was called during the gameplay. It will be more easy for the future writing of their story.Francesco75 (talk) 06:42, June 12, 2018 (UTC)

This, or something along the lines, gets my vote, too. Would make linking stuff like "descendant of Leonidas" easier, too. Sadelyrate (siniath) 10:40, June 12, 2018 (UTC)

How about, since the official reveal and E3 gameplay was all Kassandra, choose her for now? Sadelyrate (siniath) 08:25, June 12, 2018 (UTC)

In contrast, on boxart + all official promo images is Alexios. So don't think we should use her as canon, i think they will be showing both of them trought year. But we will need to find some way to do it, if rumors are correct that main antagonist of game would be protagonist you didnt choose. --Kulurak (talk) 10:22, June 12, 2018 (UTC)

Currently. Before yesterday, we didn't even know about Kassandra, the chance to pick the protagonist. So would your position change if they came out with box art, a slew of promo (and other) pics featuring her? Sadelyrate (siniath) 10:40, June 12, 2018 (UTC)

According to the trivia, the novelization of the game considered Kassandra to be canon, therefore shes the main character. Its a shame kinda, I was leaning towards Alexios due to his stature everything.—unsigned comment by AaronFireBird1 (talk · contr)

I did research into Greek history and there is no historical records of female heroines except for gods, not even demi-gods, in spartan culture the only way a woman could be given a headstone when she died was to die during childbirth because that was her dying in service to the state and the only reason women had a vote in spartan culture was to give there house a vote cause there husbands were away fighting wars. In Athenian culture women had no rights they could not vote, go to plays, or speak without the permission of men, women in all greek cultures were not allowed to compete in or even attend Olympics games. So it just doesn’t fit well to me yet when you go onto Assassin’s Creed Wikia they refuse to acknowledge any of this and say the developers have said that Kassandra is the Canonical Character because she’s the person that is being followed in the book yet when you look at many other novelizations they have followed other people other then the characters you played like Blackbeard, Haytham Kenway, Elise de La Serre, and Henry Greene so i dont see her being the canonical character as a good reason to wipe Alexios completly from being the main character in the game. So I feel what ever information you guys add to Kassandra's page it should also be added to Alexios' page for both to be seen as the main character. —unsigned comment by AndyC89 (talk · contr)

Andy, all of the information you shared about Spartan and Athenian women is well known to us. The reason why we don't mention these in the articles of these two characters is, first of all, because the plot details of Kassandra is not yet known to us. For all we know, the game does accurately depict her marginalized status as a girl up until she is exiled, whereupon the story would no longer contradict the historically oppressed status of Spartan women because she is serving as an independent, stateless mercenary, not for Sparta. In other words, we do not have enough information to say how much unrealistic and historically inaccurate her role in the story is as of yet, so you must be patient.

Second of all, as a professional encyclopedia, we adhere strictly to proper sourcing, not our own subjective opinions. If a Ubisoft source declares that, despite players' option in the game, the canonical character and real protagonist is Kassandra, then it is Kassandra, no matter our own personal preferences. In that case, Alexios is not canonically the protagonist in Odyssey. This means that in Assassin's Creed lore, it is really Kassandra who does everything that you as the player does in Odyssey, even if you were to choose to play as Alexios instead. That is not our choice, but the choice of Ubisoft. We only document Ubisoft's choices. I am confident Alexios has a part in the canonical story as well, but it will not be as the player's story but either as a supporting character or even as the antagonist, and when the game is released, we will update it appropriately for Alexios's article to reflect the story of the character that is not chosen as the player character. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 03:56, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

Finally, as long as Kassandra doesn't starkly contradict the historical status of Spartan woman (and from what we know of her so far, she doesn't necessarily because her heroism is committed when she is a stateless exile), then we will not mention the marginalized status of historical Spartan women in Kassandra and Alexios's articles because it's not relevant to them specifically. If Odyssey does indeed heavily contradict these historical facts about Greek women, but not through Kassandra, then that information would be acknowledged in the articles about Athens and Sparta. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 04:00, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

That makes alot of sense. I am torn on either playing as Kassandra due to her being the correct canonical or Alexios because he looks so badass and awesome. —unsigned comment by AaronFireBird1 (talk · contr)

AaronFireBird1 and AndyC89, in the future, please remember to sign all your messages with four tildes: ~~~~, so that it is clear who wrote which comment. As well, do not leave unnecessary spaces between messages. There should only be one blank line between each message. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 03:56, October 1, 2018 (UTC)

What i am trying to explain is yes Kassandra is the main character of the Novel but I'm trying to to give you any spoilers but fine Kassandra is the leader of the cult the book follows her rise as the cult leader while the game follows Alexios as he tries to destroy the cult the books have taken this route in the past as well following Haytham Kenway and Following Elise De La Serre so in the game if you play it canonically Alexios is the main character and Kasandra is the younger sister who runs the cult. AndyC89 (talk) 05:04, October 2, 2018 (UTC)AndyC89

Andy, I kind of wish I hadn't read that, but I understand your reasoning for sharing it, and it is my duty after all to check on these things. If it is true, then you may be right, and we have some serious thinking to do. However, until the game is released, we cannot act on this information just yet. I would ask that you please be a bit patient and hold off on it, and I thank you for your efforts and eagerness. Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 05:35, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

im sorry for putting that i didnt want to ruin any of it but after re reading and reading every book and how the author likes to take a look at the templars side of the conflit every chance he gets along with the wording in the actual source and having followed and read every detail and side story of everything from this franchise along with ubisoft giving us the ability to choose characters im going off of what i believe is what the ubisoft meant by there statment i really didnt want to ruin anything for anyone cause i know everyone here is as big of a fan of this series as i am i just didnt want to see two very amazing characters being treated differently they both should be treated equally. (now while this is all still specualtion till the book actually comes out based off of all the facts is how i came to this hypothisis along with the fact that all game promotional material is Alexios and all book promotional material shows Kassandra.) again it was never my intention to do that but when i see a charater being treated unfairly i had to speak up so im sorry about my fustration. AndyC89 (talk) 05:47, October 2, 2018 (UTC)AndyC89

Andy, have you actually read the book or is this speculation or second hand knowledge? I ask because I too have heard a similar rumor but with a distinct and critical difference. Obviously even if you say you’ve read the novel it’s still secondhand knowledge for us and not verifiable until the actual release. But maybe we should completely lock this and Kassandra’s article until the book comes out. Also you seem to be under the impression that the Odyssey novel is written by the same author as Forsaken and Unity;it’s not and so you shouldn’t be basing anything off previous trend. Inductive reasoning is super faulty.Lacrossedeamon (talk) 05:55, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

It is just my speculation but i have read all the other books written by Oliver Bowden and he has a history doing this exact thing in almost everyone of them in Origins=Bayek's father, Underworld=Henry Greene, Unity=Elise (Templar), Black Flag=Blackbeard, Forsaken=Haytham Kenway, AC2=Leonardo Da Vinci, The Third Cursade=Niccolo Polo reading Altairs Journal to Marco Polo. If he can avoid it he always writes the story from someone elses point of view other then the playable character to allow for inconsistencies when he accidentally writes a name wrong or a certain detail to the events. put this with the historical consistencies of the time, the promotional ads, it points directly to (to me) Alexios is canon playable character. and yes while Oliver Bowden did not write Odyssey having set this precedent down for all past works to allow for some inconsistencies it is a natural conclusion. but i agree both pages should be completly locked and under construction till the book comes out to confirm. AndyC89 (talk) 06:12, October 2, 2018 (UTC)AndyC89

You just presented your own presumptions about the contents of a book and a game you've never read or played (nor heard of from secondhand sources who had advanced access) as "spoilers"... because you were that certain about the validity of your mere hypothesis...? Sol Pacificus^(Cyfiero) 07:02, October 2, 2018 (UTC)

Yes I never tried to claim that i knew the exat story only from doing research into historical realities, how previous authors and how the books like to be somewhat different in the franchise so that both could be canon in the past, and the exact wording used from ubisoft when they made the annoucement that Kassandra would be canon in the book and showing "Her story". AndyC89 (talk) 16:00, October 2, 2018 (UTC)AndyC89

Umm, it doesn’t seem like you actually read any of the books because you got most of the points of view incorrect. Now I can’t speak for Underworld because I never read it but all of Ezio’s novels (Renaissance, Brotherhood, and Revelations) were from his point of view not Leonardo’s. Desert Oath was from Bayek’s point of view not his father’s. Black Flag was from Edward’s point of view not Blackbeard’s. The Secret Crusade was essentially Ezio’s point of view since it was a frame story of him reading Niccolo Polo’s journal which in turn was Niccolo retelling Altair’s story to Maffeo. Forsaken had extracts from both Connor and Haytham’s journals. And Unity had extracts from both Elise and Arno’s journals. N217062 (talk) 06:21, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

It is still the story from another perspective as i was saying if your not hearing exactly what i was saying while desert oath was from Bayeks point of view the story was still about Bayeks father and how it lead bayek to where he was at the beginning of the game. secret crusade was ezio reading the works written down by Niccolo Polo for his son Marco Polo to read. and you just said what i was saying with Forsaken Haythems Journal being read by Connor so yeah how have i not read them might want to read them again yourself.

Father?

Even if you play as Kassandra, does it still confirm who his father is? Lacrossedeamon (talk) 14:25, October 3, 2018 (UTC)