Talk:Assassins/Archive 1

Who is Rebecca Crane?--PhantomT1412 12:27, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Oh? It isn't? My fault, sorry about that. I didn't know. Toukashi 16:15, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Well, I really didn't know who she was. But I did some research since... --PhantomT1412 20:59, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

About the Assassin's Flag
In a rare moment, I decided to play Assassin's Creed through again. Don't ask why. Anyway, I was given an update over Live, which appears to have changed game textures of everything bearing the Assassin's logo. It appears that in the middle of the insignia is some kind of cube thing that wasn't there before. I've taken a quick look and there doesn't seem to be anything about it. Anybody else seen this, and if so, could you provide pictures? Swollenfish 13:33, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * As far as I remember, all assassin's flags on Masyaf and throughout the word already had that cube on it, but I have the PC version. -- D. Cello 16:01, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

I just checked my strategy guide; the picture in the flag collection section of the Masyaf flag does have something in the middle of the Assassin's logo. The picture is kind of small, but whatever is in the middle of the logo does resemble a cube. --Aftyn 10:52, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

You can see these cubes in one of Iran's Mosque. I'm not sure if it's in iran MakinArceneau 13:53, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yep, they were there before. Wookie Assassin - "Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the only antidote to shame." 02:26, November 18, 2011 (UTC)

Location of Modern
Can we add a speculation section. In AC2 if you look out the windows in the Assassins Hideout they city scape looks like Venice or one of the Italian cities....any thoughts?

~ Kole

Speculations on the Talk page. Article pages, only facts. -- D. Cello 00:46, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

The signs in the parking lots (at both places) are in italian....... CarloGrimaldi 01:16, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Spanish
I saw Raphael Sanchez and Gaspard Martinez on this page; Raphael as an Assassin and Gaspard as Ezio's victim. I assume they are from AC II: Discovery, or are they just made up? Can someone confirm either of these? Master Sima Yi 11:12, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Abraham Lincoln and John Wilkes Boothe
Isn't it possible that Lincoln was a Templar using the Apple to control the southern or northern states to start the Civil War, and Boothe the Assassin trying to stop it?--Bladeinthecrowd 07:22, December 31, 2009 (UTC)Bladeinthecrowd


 * Nope. It says the way it is now in Subject 16's The Truth files. Master Sima Yi 13:13, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Abel
I've played the game twice and i have not seen any evidence of him being an Assassin now i'm not saying he too is evil but he could have not cared about the Assassins or Adam and Eve could have given it to him after the war since they apperently found no use for it and since Abel died before the Templars even existed and after the war between the humans and "those who came before" there was no need for assassins at the time and the Assassins group could have started after the Templars were formed. ANd I'm sry if im making this look like such a big deal but everyone on here takes every little thing so seriously --TitanGunz 23:50, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree - Abel doesn't seem to be an assassin himself - nor does Adam and Eve for that matter - I suspect they belonged to a sort of rebellion/freedom fighter group who liberated the humans from Those Who Came Before. Adam, Eve, and maybe Abel might be the descentants of the Assassins, or at least the Assassins immune to the piece of Eden (including the members of the order who helped out Altair in the final sequence of assassins creed 1). Regardless, I think Adam, Eve, and Abel need to be removed from the list of Assassins - Cain was definitely the first Templar, as his 'mark' (i.e. Symbol) is the Templar one, and he stole the Apple (PE1?) from Abel, probably for power. The trouble is Adam and Eve's role isn't fully explored yet, so we can't say for sure what they where doing. But I don't believe the evidence supports them being the founders of the assassins --Yargling 00:32, January 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, until (or if) we are otherwise told straightforward, I think we should look upon the origins of Templars and Assasins and their corresponding ideologies like the wielders of the Light and Dark sides of the Force in Star Wars - neither Jedi nor Sith came up with the two sides of the Force, just like Templars nor Assasins invented cravings for power and a belief in freedom of will, respectively.
 * These are flaws and traits which have been around since the beginning, and much blood has been spilled over these issues. It ranges from major events like the war between humans and the First Civilization, the secret war between Assassins and Templars and, for the sake of comparative argument, between Jedi and Sith :), to relatively minor events like the assassination of Ceasar, Cains jealousy-leading-to-killing of his brother, etc. And in between we have the various individuals (who usually are the instigators to these kind of events) whose eye's are opened to the world, realizing that nothing is true, everything is permitted and either chooses to bring about a new illusion for their benefit, or tear the down the whole concept and ultimately let people decide on their own.
 * The fight going on right now could just as well be the latest, and the most prolonged one, concerning these beliefs.


 * Brutus and allies, Wei Yu, Cleopatra, Adam and Eve and any other pre-AC1 assassins could, more reasonably, be spiritual ancestors to the Assassin Order, but not likely part of any formal Order at all, instead answering independently to the need for change for the benefit of freedom (and yes, Wei Yu might have his karate belt fashioned like an assassins emblem in the Sanctuary, but this could also be the result of artistic license at the behest of the Auditore. After all, aren't there oranges depicted in The Last Supper?).


 * The same could be applied to the "earlier Templars" like Cain and Ceasar.
 * Whenever there's a hunger for absolute power, a presence of greed, empowering of an elite at the cost of honest common folk (and especially when there's a POE involved) it seems you are automatically marked as a formal Templar (sometimes anachronistically - I don't think Cain started a world-stretching order devouted to the subjugation of mankind. Rather, he was the symbollic first-timer in "human dark-side wielding", so to speak. Hard to belive that his mark would literally be same as the one adopted by a monastic order turned blasphemous - it has to be symbollic, too. "Mark of Cain" traces L'Ordre du Temple back to biblical times...pfew - etymology: result of a melodrama-queen gone mentally labile due to super-exposure to a highly controversial and non-approved genetic memory extraction and viewing device. Spraying your blood all over the interior decoration seems pretty stable, too...But still, 16 - I'll pour one for you, homie). Also, the bible doesn't really mean that the Devil is physically present with his unholy fork & farts anytime and anywhere there are wrongdoings about, but rather the evil he represent is (And no, I'm not a Christian. Why would I be writing this essay about an all-star heathen game like AC if I was? :)).


 * So in essence: Just like red lightsaber doesn't have to mean Sith, Apple-wielding doesn't have to mean Templar membership. BUT, you are still a dark-sider, something both Sith and Rakata adhere(d) to, just like Templars and Savonarola adhere(d) to. The same could be said about Assasins - throughout time, the same belief is there, just not the one and same incarnation. -- Nicke.e 01:11, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Kennedy
Would JFK be an Assassin or one of their allies? Because if you look at the Truth files it says that Abstergo planned his assassination.

--Beirut 23:06, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think JFK was an Assassins, I think maybe the Templars tried to recruit him (like they did with Nicola Telsa), and he wasn't interested - then they killed him to get his PoE. The assassins, from what I understand, stay in the shadows and only act to counter the templars; power is not there goal, only the prevention of world domination by the Templars and the destruction of free will. --Yargling 00:32, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

I don't even understand why we have pages for JFK, Lincoln, Hitler, the only part these people have in the AC games is the 5 second pictures shown in the glyphs they do not affect the story line in anyway possible. Who cares if they had a piece of eden and were killed b/c of that? �
 * This place is supposed to be a "complete" database. 'Nuff said. -- Silver  Mage   Ω  05:46, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Atheists?!
How is their religion atheism? There were christians among the assassin's. I think the proper word should be "various". Alexrd 18:39, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well Altaïr was surely an atheist. Though they still describe him as spiritual. He knew from his master that the Apple was responsible for all the miracles people saw, which were just illusions performed by the Apple. Altaïr wrote in his codex he doesn't believe in a creator. And the work of assassins, their drive-force was based on the codex. I'm not sure which assassins you think to be Christian. -- Altaïr 19:50, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Altaïr was just one assassin among many. It was believed that the Apple was responsible for all the miracles, but that was not proved. Teodora was christian, although not belonging to any church. Besides, the religion of the other assassins is unkown, and as such, nobody can claim that all of them are (were) atheists. Alexrd 19:13, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

They were all different religions...... Ezio, along with his whole family was Catholic, the codex and the first game says Altair was half Christian and half Muslim but follows an Agnostic culture, Malik and his brother were Muslims and they're just the Assassins who openly admitting their religion..... So I too believe it should be various but apparently Jasca's word is the be all and end all......EchoAltair......
 * D.Cello is the one who decides on this. Jasca is a mod, a member of the Istruttorium. But it's admins like D.Cello who have the final word. So if you have any questions, you can adress them to either D.Cello, me or master Sima Yi. Members like Jasca make sure the wiki stays in a good condition. As for the religion. I agree that the Assassins started off in a Muslim evironment. But after Altair knew thetruth and wrote the codex he knew he had to start to re-shape the Assassins in a different philosophy, compared to the blinded obedience under Al Mualim. Altaïr was one assassin, but after the first game he did become master of the assassins and lets not forget that he left and that the Assassin order we know from the Renaissance, mainly in Italy was forged from the codex or at least inspired. But I agree that they lived in a time of ignorance because the codex was lost after Domenico Auditore was forced to hide it and split it, so afterwards they could have had varied religions indeed. An would they base their religion on the codex. I do think so.-- Altaïr 19:50, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I read the codex as though he taught them to 'open their minds', to tell them the truth and let them make of it what they wish. Not convert them all to athiesm, then he'd be just as bad as Al Mualim...... And the codex is a family heirloom, all families had one, I even have one, so chances are that noone has ever seen that codex outside the bloodline of the author...... Even Master Sima Yi has tried to change it to various but Jasca keeps changing it back saying it shouldn't be 'blanketed' when he has just blanketed them all as athiests....... Assassins claiming they are nephilim is the stuff religion is made of, so being athiest is far from the truth anyway......... EchoAltair......


 * Is that so? Well he shouldn't. Don't want to play boss here, but I do think the religion of Assassins is depended on the timeline. I'm sure Altaïr was an atheist. But others weren't. Many in the Third Crusade were muslim and everyone not familiar with the context of the codex could be of a variety of religions. So I'll change it. And indeed Altaïr wouldn't try to convert the assassins under his leadership, nor would they be familiar with the codex as it was not completed anyway. I have to ask you to sign your signatures propery. Just base it on mine and replace my nickname with yours. Altaïr 23:15, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Yea, just check the history of changes.... And thankyou for changing it....... Sorry for not signing my posts properly but my laptop's broke and I'm using my phone which doesn't have tildes or a signature button so that's the best I can do I'm afraid....... EchoAltair.....

All that said, I think we can safely say that they were not all Christian, as 68.253.212.85 has twice tried to change it to. Is there a way to lock that person out, or otherwise let them know that they should stop trying to make that change? Morgan-wolf 00:04, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

ORIGINAL Assassins are muslims. You should know the Real life Al Mualim is muslim too (Rashid ad-Din Sinan) Ezio is also atheist i think, since he said words like Altair did," held in the arms of YOUR GOD." something like that. Mario might also be an atheist since he said that he was not interested in Monteriggioni's church. In general, the FIRST Assassin Order based in Syria are mostly Muslims, no Christians. Few Atheists. Remember they fight the Christian Crusaders... so.MakinArceneau 14:02, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Ezio's frequent visits to the Vatican to kill the cardinals, papal guard and pope are evidence towards atheism~Ziodes


 * The Assassins don't fight Christian Crusaders. They fight the Templars, whom in the game are portrayed as atheists themselves, who use religion as a shield to hide their true purposes. They don't believe in God, nor in any religion because they think the Apple (and "those who came before") was the origin of all things. And Ziodes, killing corrupt people has nothing to do with religion, nor with Ezio being an atheist or not. Alexrd 23:40, May 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think all Templars are atheists, i think they are just like the Assassins, some are atheists, some are believers, and one example is Antonio Maffei, who say constantly about being doing god's work and calling Ezio a demon, but maybe he is lying, but who knows? maybe he is really convicted. Another would be Rodrigo Borgia, who everybody calls an atheist, but i think he is deist, since he don't believe in the biblical god, but yet he believes that god himself is in the vault of the vatican. about Ezio and Altair, Altair maybe was half christian half muslim, but after he got the apple and discovered it's secrets, he became an atheist. About Ezio, i think he believed in god, but wasn't religious, and i don't recall nothing saying that the auditore family is catholic, but after he discovered that his father was an assassin, sometime during his quest he became atheist. is just my opinion and i may be wrong so waht you guys think about that? BOS 00:44, August 28, 2011
 * I don't think all Templars are atheists, i think they are just like the Assassins, some are atheists, some are believers, and one example is Antonio Maffei, who say constantly about being doing god's work and calling Ezio a demon, but maybe he is lying, but who knows? maybe he is really convicted. Another would be Rodrigo Borgia, who everybody calls an atheist, but i think he is deist, since he don't believe in the biblical god, but yet he believes that god himself is in the vault of the vatican. about Ezio and Altair, Altair maybe was half christian half muslim, but after he got the apple and discovered it's secrets, he became an atheist. About Ezio, i think he believed in god, but wasn't religious, and i don't recall nothing saying that the auditore family is catholic, but after he discovered that his father was an assassin, sometime during his quest he became atheist. is just my opinion and i may be wrong so waht you guys think about that? BOS 00:44, August 28, 2011

assassins
hey i was looking for a list of the actuall assassins [like altair, ezio, desmond, those dudes under the villa in ac2, etc] but this was all i could find. is there a page with a list of them all? please redirect me if possible
 * Check the section entitled "Known asssassins" perhaps. It list all the named assassins we know of. -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 11:52, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can also just check the list here: Category:Assassins. -- Master Sima Yi 21:11, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Has anyone else noticed that in that Sanctuary under Monteriggioni, the assassins all have a different-looking assassins' emblem? One has one composed of snakes, another with leaves, etc. Has this been documented at all?122.104.203.226 07:20, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry 122.104.203.226 those are not leaves nor Assassin Order emblems. Those are emblems associated with the Assassins' specialty, for example a spear for Wei Yu.. hidden blade for Darius,
 * Has anyone else noticed that in that Sanctuary under Monteriggioni, the assassins all have a different-looking assassins' emblem? One has one composed of snakes, another with leaves, etc. Has this been documented at all?122.104.203.226 07:20, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry 122.104.203.226 those are not leaves nor Assassin Order emblems. Those are emblems associated with the Assassins' specialty, for example a spear for Wei Yu.. hidden blade for Darius,
 * Sorry 122.104.203.226 those are not leaves nor Assassin Order emblems. Those are emblems associated with the Assassins' specialty, for example a spear for Wei Yu.. hidden blade for Darius,
 * Sorry 122.104.203.226 those are not leaves nor Assassin Order emblems. Those are emblems associated with the Assassins' specialty, for example a spear for Wei Yu.. hidden blade for Darius,

Bahir and Karim
Who are they? In which game do they appear? -- Master Sima Yi 21:11, October 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello. it is funny that you are once always lectured by Jasca but know you are an admin XD. Where did you see them?MakinArceneau 14:06, May 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * What the hell? I have been here much longer than Jasca, and if I remember correctly, I was already an admin before he arrived here (not sure though). So I don't see how that is funny to you. Bahir and Karim were put on the article, but I removed them since no source was given. -- Master Sima Yi 14:18, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

Brutus
Ok, so I have only got the 3 first Romulus scrolls, but it seems to me that it's strongly implying Brutus was an Assassin and killed Julius Caesar, especially considering his armor is one of a master Assassin (though it is also implied that it was in fact Romulus' armor, so he could have just found it). Oh and, by the way, isn't one of Romulus and Remus an Assassin as well in this context ? (I would have just said Romulus is the Assassin, since he killed Remus, but his "followers" are also affiliated to the Templars, which made me doubt). Any thoughts on this ? Alarielle 15:12, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Renaissance Assassin attire
The Assassins during the Third Crusade had a uniform guideline; the Grand Master wore black, Master Assassins wore white, etc. Did the Renaissance Assassins have a dress code for their robes; I know most of the other Assassins didn't wear any robes (Niccolo didn't, Paola didn't etc.) except for Ezio and his Brotherhood, were they supposed to have a code similar to the Assassins of the Third Crusade? BleedingEffect 16:44, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that assassin's in the Renaissance have a dresscode. they are supposed to just blend in, Giovanni only used his hooded suited so he wouldn't be recongnised and i think Ezio and his brotherhood all wear the hooded suits because the war with the Templars is no longer hidden and so its kind of like a unifrom. Jon Shannow 17:31, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Founder
"Adam and Eve's descendants"

Well thats specific, narrows it down to just about any Human who ever lived. 79.97.144.31 21:56, April 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Erm, no&hellip; Adam and Eve were just two of probably millions of humans created by the First Civilisation for use as slave labour. -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 15:59, May 2, 2011 (UTC)

Women
Were there any women in the Order in Altair's time, I can't see a single one in game, they may be included in the order just not as active Assassins or Rafiqs but that probably changed with Maria Zachariah Zuan 00:26, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

Women were not allowed in Al Mualim's time, but Altair had a much more open mind about such things, as we've found out.70.70.13.203 03:54, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * "Women were not allowed in Al Mualim's time..." Says you. The fact is, we don't know why no female Assassins are portrayed at during Al Mualim's reign, though no mention of a ban is ever made. -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 12:25, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

Bill and William Miles
I just found a part of the article that had William Miles as two different people. Before it was Bill Miles and William M. I erased Bill Miles and changed it to William Miles. I hope it was okay that I did that.The Great Dog Demon 22:26, November 17, 2011 (UTC)The Great Dog Demon

From a brilliant commentary about religion and a delicious fantasy to a tired trope of liberalism triumphing over conservatism.
Forgive me for being a young black conservative (an impossibility on the Internet, I know.) But I bought the first AC because I had heard so many good things about it. I was dubious, given my religious background, of how AC would portray Christianity, and found, much to my very pleased surprise, that the first two games primarily come at it from the point of "religion -as we know it- is bunk, forced upon us by the Ax Crazy Templars," however, it still leaves some wiggle room in between the cracks, as Jesus was a member of the First Civilization, and God could still exist, albeit in a different context entirely. And that's just my limited philosophical interpretation of the first two games. I'm sure people with more time and willing to devote more effort could construct vibrant tapestries of the games' philosophical connotations.

However, when it came to AC:B, I noticed that instead of the musings of philosophy; particularly in the present day, the political leanings of this game became painfully apparent. Portraying Mao Tse Tung in a positive light, and turning right around and portraying Condoleeza Rice as nothing more than a coroporate stooge (when she was a barrier-breaker in nearly every sense of the word) comes off as heavy-handed, unnecessary, and frankly, false. Where Ubisoft could have continued with the Corrupt Church angle, especially considering Pope Alexander the Sixth is the antagonist of II, they decided instead that the hidden messages would be about how "Liberals triumph the will of the people, while Conservatives are only In it for the Money."

One of the names of the Assassins on this very page, Circle of Liberals, reinforces this point, to an unfortunate end. I'm tired of, every time I go on Youtube, I'm attacked because the Bible I choose to read denounces homosexuality (even though I disagree with that personally). I'm tired of Sarah Palin being outright lambasted, basted, skewered, and roasted by the Left because they don't fit their neat little stereotype of a woman. I'm -also- tired of the standard of living plummeting in this country while Washington loonies on BOTH sides of the aisle continue to do nothing about it. I'm -also- tired of governmental expansion in every single facet of my life. What I don't want, however, is -any- of this to be reflected in my video games, something I use as a distraction from all of these stressors. Particularly in a polarizing way, which is what Ubisoft seems to be doing right here. Yes, the corporations we have in the 20th and 21st centuries are -way- out of control. But the fact that no one seems to have twigged on to yet is that they're in bed with BOTH Liberals AND Conservatives, not simply one or the other. The difference is because Liberals tend to be more smooth-talkers, they can hide it more easily than can Conservatives. 64.198.73.11 07:50, February 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think you seem to be quite getting the point of the universe. Templars aren't "evil" and Assassins aren't "good". Both strive for peace, only they have a different view of how to attain this. The Borgia were corrupt and did not follow the Templars' actual goals, preferring greed over the greater good. Simply because the Assassins are the protagonist faction, doesn't mean they are also the right side. Liberals aren't "good" and conservatives aren't "evil". Templars created capitalism, yet Assassins supported communism, which is commonly despised by western countries. Also, Jesus wasn't a member of the First Civilization, he was a simple human in possession of the Shroud of Eden and (perhaps) an Apple of Eden. The Templars also didn't support christianity, the Borgia simply used it to hold power. Neither the Assassins or Templars support any particular religion. You aren't quite getting the real point of the Assassin-Templar war, which may have been caused by Assassin's Creed II and Brotherhood portraying the Templars as greedy and evil. If you look at the first Assassin's Creed, Revelations and The Fall, you may see that the Templars aren't evil in the slightest. Their methods only make them slightly villainous, but in the end they were the ones who progressed scientific development and want the best for humanity. -- Master Sima Yi 15:12, February 2, 2012 (UTC)