Board Thread:Off-topic board/@comment-108.76.119.144-20170305232403/@comment-5088097-20170618194613

Sol Pacificus wrote:

SupremeAssassin wrote: Nah, I mean, if you take a look at terrorism today, it's essentially what Templars do in the Assassin's Creed franchise. Now you might wonder how that'd make sense and that perhaps I am grasping at straws but terrorists and AC Templars are not so different. I am of course referring to Islamic terrorists, and if you did the research, in Islam, they indoctrinate young boys and girls to hate nonbelievers. What does this mean? Well, this means everyone who does not adhere to the Islamic faith. Likewise, Templars also "hate" nonbelievers, or in other words, they do not care for those who do not share their goals and their beliefs. Before the foundation of Abstergo Industries, the Templars were nothing more than destructive miscreants who held no respect for the freedom of others. Terrorists, like Templars, believe in some bigger picture, some higher purpose through violence. The Assassins also resort to violence, but their primary goal is to safeguard the freedom of humanity when it is most threatened. I have no doubt that if Assassins as in the AC universe, existed in our modern day and age, they would actively pursue these Islamic extremists and put them down. A terrorist is someone who insights terror, it does not matter the person's ethnicity or religion, and Templars have instigated terror in the series, many times. Ultimately, this is what I mean. It just so happens that our modern day terrorists are all adherents to the Islamic faith, which makes you wonder what's going on. I agree that Templars of the series are largely terrorists which is always the greatest irony with those who justify authoritarianism or tyranny with arguments about "order", "peace", and "security", their ends is "order" but their means is "chaos". In contrast, the ends of the Assassins, is peace, sure, and their means "freedom", sure, but it is not chaos, and their methods emphasize precision and moral discipline.

Now, there are those who argue that moderate Templars do not condone terrorism. I think this isn't impossible. Perhaps one can wish for a New World Order under Templar elitist rule but not believe innocent casualties are acceptable for that dream. The problem with Templars isn't that they necessarily, actively endorse terrorism—that's never explicit—but that they quite specifically have no prohibition against it.

However, I disagree that Templars would be Islamic terrorists. Not all terrorists are the same. Just like not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims, not all terrorists are Templars. Villains have different motives. Templars are certainly not religious fanatics, at least not in modern times. The only way I could see ISIL being Templars would be if somehow ISIL were not sincerely for the cause of Islam as they claim and are actually atheists, or if they are being puppeted by the Templars. Both, in a hypothetical scenario where Ubisoft actually dealt with this faction in the series (which would be a bad idea), would be poor writing to me. As much as I'm very pro-Assassin, I don't think that every evil faction in history should be Templars. There should be nuance. ISIL is practically anarchic, to the point that I don't think any Templar would be able to delude themselves that that kind of rampant chaos was for the greater goal of world peace, even if they did so for the French Revolution or World War II.

I guess... if we really want to suppose that Islamic terrorists are Templars, the greater plan would be to try to galvanize a mass mentality towards valuing national security above all, whereby people would more likely turn to authoritarian measures. Xenophobia and fear are harbingers to dictatorships. The threat of Islamic terrorism has helped to drive more people towards the alt-right. It actually sounds more feasible now that I think of it given how convoluted Templar schemes can be, but I wouldn't like that sort of plot still just as I protest to the Allies' leaders being Templars as well.

Yes, the Assassins, if they exist in real-life, would oppose the Islamic terrorists and help in the cause against them, but I think I should also add that they definitely would not make any generalizations that Islam at its core indoctrinates its adherents to hate all non-believers (even if that's not what you said). I mean, for one thing, the historical Hassan-i Sabbāh was educated by the Fatimid Caliphate of Egypt which professed to religious tolerance and the right to freedom of beliefs. For another thing, they would recognize that the real picture is far, far more complex.

I fear this is getting too political lol. That is exactly the irony of the Templars, they purport system and order, but their methods are so beset of ideological destruction, that one has to wonder if whether what they truly seek is the good of all mankind. As Edward Kenway said to Governor Torres, "You would have mankind dulled beyond reason." I feel this is no different from Totalitarianism, as citizens of State are essentially one body, with no freedom of thought, or association. Basically, everything the Assassin's Creed, and the Assassin ideology supports all vanishes from Totalitarianism. I've done the reading, and apparently, the Prophet Muhammid, akin to say, a Templar Grandmaster such as Reginald Birch, do not place a lot of value on non-adherents. What I can say for certain is that Templars are terrorists, and furthermore, they advocate for a Totalitarian State. How the Assassins and Templars differ is by philosophy. It's like comparing Democracy to Autocracy, that's what it boils down to I would say. Have you ever noticed that although every branch of the Assassin Brotherhood has a Mentor, said Mentor does not have absolute power, whereas, in the Templar Order, the Grandmaster often has absolute power? Take Syndicate, for instance, Starrick essentially controlled London, and by Henry Green's admission, controlled the world also.

Yes, I do concur, individuals such as Haytham Kenway, and Shay Cormac did not condone terrorism, and ironically, the Assassin Ezio Auditore da Firenze did insight terror in Cappadocia in order to lure out Manuel Palaiologos. So it's not all black and white, as we are initially led to believe. Of course, one may argue that Ezio did not foresee that his actions would lead to such drastic results.

I understand what you mean, but within the AC universe, real-life figures such as Adolf Hitler were either Templars or Templar puppets. So I suppose that in hindsight, not every villain in the AC universe should have to be a Templar. For instance, Jack the Ripper was an Assassin, and Pierre Belloc was also an Assassin. Bartholomew Roberts was a Sage, not a Templar.

No, the Assassins are about freedom of expression and respect others regardless of their heritage, or their origins. The Assassins were basically centuries ahead of their time, being able to tolerate social behaviors that were otherwise viewed as unorthodox at the time.

PS: You know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see Ubisoft delve into Seven Pillars of Wisdom, I have this idea that T.E Lawrence would have been an Assassin.

Consider this passage from the book, "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. This I did."