Talk:Isu

Reference or Source
Does anyone have a reference or a source for this because I didn't hear aything about them in the game?

...Have you even finished the game? it's right there at the end!--CombustionMan 00:11, December 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed - I don't see how he could have asked that if he hasn't completed AC2. --Yargling 12:43, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

They are first mentined by Warren Vidic in AC1, when Desmond interrogates him for answers on how their technology, like the Animus, was developed, he mentions it was scavenged from 'Those who Came Before'. This is then developed in AC2, right at the end of the game. Play to the end, discover all Glyphs and The Truth videos, and it should be clear.--Peace-and-War

Does anyone have a reference or source on 16 having eagle vision, i dont remember that. O.o Spoonodeath 19:19, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * ACII, 16 says "Why do we have these gifts? It's in our blood!" or something similar. Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 18:33, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Someone please get rid of that deplorable picture of Mars/Ares. It is ruining the friggin page.Beirut 01:52, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * What picture are you talking about? Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 11:37, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Already removed it yesterday. It was 2 pictures of greek statues. -- D. Cello 02:28, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

'Humanity'?
There's a line in there that says something along the lines of 'it was 1499 when humanity would first 'meet' Those Who Came Before' something like that anyway.

It's explicitly stated that humans and Those Who Came Before lived together, even that the latter created the former, so how can it be that Ezio met them before those ancient humans?
 * It isn't. That piece of info is wrong. -- D. Cello 20:43, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * To quote the article "The first known instance of a human becoming aware of their existence following their disappearance was that of Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad, who made mention of them in his Codex. However, it would not be until the year 1499 that humanity would first "meet" Those Who Came Before; Ezio Auditore da Firenze, an Assassin, encountered a hologram of a being calling herself Minerva in The Vault. While Ezio likely told his fellow Assassins of Minerva, it is possible they still did not understand her true nature; Ezio showed great difficulty in understanding Minerva's explanation of her existence."


 * As you can see, the word 'meet' is encircled to emphasis that this is a meeting between post-First Civilisation humans and this other race. I feel it is fitting, as in-game the Codex clearly states that humanity had at one stage lost all knowledge of the First Civilisation, and it was only through the efforts of the Assassins and Templars, who used the PoEs', that any knowledge was gained. As such, I feel the wording 'humanity' is more than fitting for the article, especially since "non-primitive humans" is POV&hellip; I'm sure they weren't "primitive" at the time; by all accounts, the technology they had available to them far surpassed what was available to the Abstergo in 2012, making that choice in words technically incorrect. -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 13:54, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

It isn't clear that the meaning is 'the first human after the loss of all knowledge of the First Civilisation'. I've included the word 'again' hopefully this clears up the confusion Mercenari 15:05, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

they said they were more advanced in time, they had the power to travel through time, they knew of things to come, i think that they are the future of humanity that fled back in time for some reson71.60.215.38 03:27, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Except they said "We simply came...before."

Are they still alive?
Just throwing this out there, feel free to criticise me, but is it possible that "those who came before" are still around and simply took a similar path to some of the beings in 2001: A Space Odessey? I think subject 16 mentions something about them being in the sun if I am not mistaken, which has definate parallels with 2001. This would also explain the line: "When we were still flesh" as well as their ability to predict the future as the would be in a timeless form.

It could even be possible that Minverva was not a hologram at all, perhaps the temple allowed her to communicate with humans? 94.11.67.236 21:00, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Well Altair, Enzio, Desmond, and subject 16 have some "those who came before" DNA in them (Altair, Enzio, and Desmond have eagle vision) Blix1ms0ns 02:18, January 13, 2011 (UTC)

A better name
Anyone agree with me that this article should be moved to The First Civilization? - Duelisttri 14:58, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, if you talk to members I'm sure they are more familiar with 'Those who came before', rather than 'the first civilization'. - Altaïr 17:10, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Those who came before is just a precarious name, when we don't know what to call them so we stick with what Vidic called them - Duelisttri 15:36, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah so we'll stick to 'Those who came before'? So I don't understand what your point is with this 'First Civilization' if you agree that we should stick with 'Those who came before'. -- Altaïr 17:45, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

My point is now that we have know them clear enough, we should call them with a more suitable name - Duelisttri 15:57, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you stick to a name people are familiar with. You might know much about them, but other people might not, so if they want to research it, you use a title that they do know. - Altaïr 18:42, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whilst I personally prefer the title of 'First Civilisation', I do feel the article should remain under the current title. As Altaïr has mentioned, people searching for information on this subject would most likely look up 'Those Who Came Before'. It is enough that we have the 'First Civilisation' mentioned in the lead sentence, and it allows us to prevent excess repetition within the article. -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 01:50, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it should be changed to 'The First Civilization', anyone looking to learn about them will likely be searching for either Minerva, Juno, or Piece of Eden. Those who came before just sounds too vague IMO.  If you change the name of the article and link it with characters like Minerva and Juno then i think people are smart enough to figure it out.  --Jedted 21:29, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

First Templars
I just had an epiphany. We say that Cain is the first templar as his mark is that of the knights. But is it not also possible that Those Who Came Before were the first templars and the most successful as they enslaved all the humans at the time, save for adam & eve. Therefore the first assassins (adam & eve) were created by their enemies themselves, the templars, not the other way around as was previously thought.

- You are stating a theory and then immediately asserting it as truth. Though Those Who Cam Before did indeed enslave the human race, they are not Templars. Being a Templar is not a concept that you can just stumble into by seeking dominion over men using artifacts. The Templars are a definite organization, begun by Cain, as the glyphs indicate.

The First Civilization were masters. But it was Cain that begun the organization we call Templars. Vaxis 06:12, November 13, 2010 (UTC)

When I said therefore I was speaking in terms of the theory. I know that there is no conclusive evidence so it is not a fact. Now I speak in regards to both this post and the one on the sword of Eden page. they are both theories that I know have faults but that is why I love ac. there are all these connections within the games and I like finding those. They also present some interesting philosophical arguments. But for your comment on the sword, there are differences between the sword in ac and the one in ac2. also, we can see some apprentices with the sword as well. The Eagle1701 04:18, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

An innocent question: Eve is to be resurrected so she can have a Those Who Came Before child with Desmond? -SPOILER- I thought Minerva murdered Lucy so she can be brought back. I'm confused.

That thing about Eve being resurrected to have a child with Desmond never happened. You have false information. Jackass2009 04:50, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

"The First Civilization" vs "Those Who Came Before"
I don't see why the name of this article can't be change to something more convenient. TWCB is too long winded and is more of a description than a title. During the credits for AC2 you hear Shaun refer to them as "The First Civilization" so it shouldn't create too much confusion for people visiting the site for the first time. Also, as i said in the other topic, most people seeking to learn about "Minerva's People" will search for either "Minerva", "Juno", or "Piece of Eden" rather than typing in "Those Who Came Before". I realize i'm probebly in the minority hear but i still stand by my vote to change the name of the article. Jedted 20:04, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

It may be what Shaun calls it, but it's not what we call it. Campbell430 20:37, January 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * You have a point Jedted, Shaun does call them the "First Civilisation" and indeed, I would prefer to have the article under that name, but the simple fact of the matter is that 95% of people who play the games and/or visit the official forums know them by the name of "Those Who Came Before" (or The Ones Who Came Before for some strange reason), so it makes more sense to have the article under the current title until a more official name is brought to light. Besides, "First Civilisation" is mentioned in the lead sentence, as well as being a redirect. -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 23:17, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * The reason the majority refer to them that way is because they're not imaginative enough to come up with a better name. If Ubisoft hasn't invented a canonical name for them then i think falls to us to give them one, any better than TWCB atleast. Jedted 00:09, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * :No, it doesn't fall to us to create anything. That would be fan-made, and as such is not allowed on our articles; we stick with what names are given in canon. Both TWCB and First Civilisation are mentioned in the article, that is good enough. If you want to hold a vote on which name the article should be under, you're more than welcome to, but I would suggest you not call your fellow fans "unimaginative". -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 00:19, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I appologize for sounding like a broken record here but do we still need this long winded title for this article? In AC:Revelations Ezio and others refer to "Those People" as "The First Civilization".  The people that read this Wiki are likely smart enough to understand who the article is refering to no matter what the name is.  I know i'm not a moderator here but i really think this needs to be considered.  96.242.4.29 02:52, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * The encyclopaedia still names them, principally, "Those Who Came Before", so unless a major consensus for a move is made, it's staying where it is. - Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 03:54, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Scratch that. Just re-read it and the Encyclopeadia names them the First Civilization, so i'll move the article now. -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 16:54, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like the technology in the Ac universe from TWCB
Prometheus could be one of the TWCB but worked with the humans.


 * What? -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 12:25, January 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * AC is an acronym for Assassins Creed and TWCB is an acroynm for Those Who Came Before.Blix1ms0ns 00:12, January 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I am fully aware what the acronyms stand for, thank you. I was asking what exactly Prometheus (who isn't a god in Greek or Roman religion) has to do with "Sounds like the technology in the Ac universe from TWCB". -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 01:41, January 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Remember the legend how pronetheus stole fire from the gods? Prometheus is in greek mythology at least. Besides it is only a theory Blix1ms0ns 02:20, January 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Promethius was a titan, not a god, though he was trusted by the gods, don't open that can of worms though, because if the greek humans that came before the gods were TWCB, then you have to wonder, who are the grek titans who came before/ created the gods?
 * Promethius was a titan, not a god, though he was trusted by the gods, don't open that can of worms though, because if the greek humans that came before the gods were TWCB, then you have to wonder, who are the grek titans who came before/ created the gods?
 * Promethius was a titan, not a god, though he was trusted by the gods, don't open that can of worms though, because if the greek humans that came before the gods were TWCB, then you have to wonder, who are the grek titans who came before/ created the gods?

Reason for Humanity's creation?
Does anyone else think that Minerva's story sounds strikingly similar to one of the Creation myths by the Mesopotamians? They also said that humans were made to be the servants of the Gods. Marael 20:52, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the writers of AC 2 got inspiration from the mesopotamians.TheDudeMan123456 23:41, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

The writers for Assassins's Creed got their ideas from all walks of faith, even the ones that are more 'primitive' such as animism and ancestor worship. So some ideas in the story may be more familiar to those of us who know the Christian doctrines while some of us will know doctrines from other faiths such as Buddhism, Taoism, Evolution, etc. They mixed all of these ideas and beliefs that the world knows of and made a very complex storyline that we can all relate to in one way or another. In AC, there is no one supreme God as in Christianity. There are superhumans revered as gods. Sounds like Greek and Roman mythology, no? In reality, these fables stemmed from the stories that post-Flood humans told (if you believe in the Deluge) of the Nephilim, hybrid angel/humans that lived thousands of years ago that were much stronger and bigger than normal humans. They were known as bullies and unnatural. But in AC, they are considered hybrids, not of angels and humans, but of 'superhumans' and humans. UbiSoft, you are amazing. So all in all, it's very interesting how they created this game that we all know and play. Sorry for rambling.Strang3Happ3nings 21:44, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Greek/Roman Gods
I've noticed that the First Civilization has people with names like Roman Gods,and sice they're all powerful,could they actually be Roman Gods? Naruto 713 03:47, March 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * In AC Universe, the members of First Civilization, after the events following the First Disaster, depleted in number and became extinct later. And humans later would justify their(Those Who Came Before) existence by converting them in Gods and mythological characters(Roman, Greek et cetera) and thus explaining all those miraculous works.-- Odranoelluta Talk  04:27, March 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you had bothered to read the article, you would know all this. -- Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 15:11, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Reproduction
i read that they repoduce slowly i was thinking did the fertility rate of the first civlization was low i mean with all their techonlgy they wouldnt be able to be supper fertile or at leaast beable to clone them selves, why did they repuduce slowly?DeirdreKent101 03:20, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Baby in The Message memory in Revelations
There is a woman holding a baby wrapped in a bundle. She is the focus of 2 or 3 shots - could this baby (and also her) be the very distant ancestors of Desmond? Xeoxer 21:31, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

It's possible, but I'm not sure. Master Decoder 23:00, June 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Any identity given to the child is, at this point, speculation; hell, at this stage, we don't even know the women is the child's mother&hellip; -- 02:48, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

3rd of the ones that came before
So i just read Assassin's Creed The Fall, and i noticed that during the tunguska explosion, Nikolai witnessed three women with Jupiter from the first civilization. They were Juno, Minerva and a third woman. Has Ubisoft or the writers said anything about who she is?

Here's the page itself. http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/054/2/5/those_that_came_before_by_lopez_the_heavy-d3a8b8o.jpg

My own conclusion would be that it is Diana because of the hairpieces, but that's just speculation. :) Tetsu Aero (talk) 21:38, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Mythological gods where all First civilization members?
I wonder if all myhological gods were actually first civilization members? Like, in subject 16:ns glyphs it shows the nordic goddess Idun possessing apples of eden. And the Greek god of war, Ares, could have been a succesfull general in the war against humanity. And Hephaestus, the greek god of crafts, was an inventor of weapons of even maybe the inventor of the pieces of eden.