Talk:Clay Kaczmarek

People, need confirming veracity of this:

'''It has been revealed that Ezio was the link between Desmond and Subject 16. The reason: Ezio sires a child or children that are in both Desmond's and 16's ancestral lineage (Since Ezio is a descendant of Altaïr this means that Desmond and 16 also share Altaïr as an ancestor, No it doesn't. This could have been Subject Sixteen's earliest memory, or he could have come from Ezio's mother's bloodline and not the fathers). '''

After the truth has been established, update the article. -- D. Cello 00:30, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Just a quick note on a couple of the facts in the article. I don't believe Subject 16 could be from a different family off of Altair and share Ezio as an ancestor with Desmond. The break would have had to happen somewhere after Ezio (possibly Ezio himself, especially seeing his ways with women). I also think that the last section of the article - about Subject 16 being a direct descendant of Adam - is a bit pointless. If Adam and Eve truly are the first humans, shouldn't everyone be a direct descendant?
 * The glyph video shows many humans other than Adam and Eve - though they themselves may have been "Demigods" (human/Those Who Came before Hybrids) - at the moment, very little is known for certain about assassins creed's Adam and Eve; though it seems that Adam and/or Eve where ancestors of Subject 16, and hence probably Ezio, Desmond, and so forth - but not for certain - i.e the A/E link could only be on the fathers side, etc. --Yargling 19:10, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Your POVs does make sense, I think you could change it... Ah, sign your posts, please. -- D. Cello 04:10, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Who is the woman Ezio slept with in Memory Sequence 6? I don't see at all... --PhantomT1412 20:24, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok now I see, I missed the race...--PhantomT1412 20:06, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ezio is directly the Ancestor of S16. The reason Vidic and Lucy did not find the vault with S16 is because he killed himeself before they found it. So they did not know about the Vault. He also died before they found the map of all the Pieces of Eden, therefore they needed Desmond. --Dragonclaw 3:11, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Blood Lines

 * Is it possible that Subject 16 was a descendant of one of the other Assassins working with Ezio? Vidic was interested in S16's memories but could not find the vault. Is it not then plausible that the location of the Vault was not located by S16 because his ancestor was not Ezio who in fact did find the Vault? Could his ancestor have been another assassin who's memories were relevant to but not including the location of the Vault? If S16 was a descendant of Ezio then he would have found it because Vidic pushed him much harder than Lucy allowed him to push Desmond. So all in all: Who is the Ancestor of Subject 16? --Dark Scion 18:02, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ezio is S16's Ancestor. The reason that he does not have the memory of the Vault's location, is because Ezio's child (S16' Next Ancestor but not Desmonds) was conceived before Ezio found the vault. Therefore, the Vault's location would not have been transfered to the child through Genetic memory because Ezio hadn't been there yet. Then, after he went to the vault, he conceived Desmond's ancestor. This Child would have got the genetic memory about the vault as Ezio had been to the vault before conception. --Jamisicus67 21:52, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * A valid theory, but what we want is something a little more solid. Is there any evidence other than conjecture of this theory?--Dark Scion 03:01, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * At the beginning of the game Lucy searches for a memory that Subject 16 and Desmond have in common, it worked meaning that they are both related to Ezio since they both have a memory of him being born in common sure that could also mean S16 just happened to have an ancestor in that room but what are the odds of that ever happening and that idea would also be pointless and stupid. If S16 wasnt related to Desmond then the whole game could have been completely different or just a few parts its and like what Jamisicus67 said his ancestor might have already been concieved which most likey happened when he slept with Cristina (or something) while Desmond came from someone else (possibly Rosa). -- TitanGunz
 * Ooor.. 16 could be a descendant of another Maria or Giovanni son. Maybe Claudia? -- D. Cello 01:14, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a problem with what you say Jamisicus, there's absolutely nothing in-game or in-book to suggest that Ezio had any children before he defeated Borgia, let alone multiple children from whom 16 and Desmond are descended independantly. To Dark Scion, in order to answer your question it is most likely that 16 died before he could be made to access Ezio's memories of the Vault, hence why Vidic knew not of it.


 * Obviously Ezio did have a child at some point, so that the bloodline could continue, but we can not possibly say it happened before 1499 without some sort of confirmation beforehand. User:Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 20:04, January 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank You, your explanation is very detailed and convincing. A few open ends and unexplained points, but very thorough nonetheless. --Dark Scion 17:30, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Categories
Do not remove the "Descendant of Altaïr" category anymore. He was a descendant of Ezio, who was a descendant of Altaïr. So therefore, Subject 16 was a descendant of Altaïr. -- Master Sima Yi 08:23, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Since Ezio is a descendant of Altaïr this means that Desmond and 16 also share Altaïr as an ancestor, No it doesn't. This could have been Subject Sixteen's earliest memory, or he could have come from Ezio's mother's bloodline and not the fathers)."--PhantomT1412 20:06, January 28, 2010 (UTC)