Talk:Maria Thorpe/Archive 1


 * In the strange way that karma and reincarnation work, maybe Lucy is a descendent of Maria ;) Maskim xul 02:42, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

It could very well be possible, good thinking. --Hells Angel 02:24, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

she couldn't be a ansestor of lucy becuese maria was a templar Theresa The Seer 23:55, 15 July 2009 (UTC)Theresa The Seer

I believe that she may actually be Desmond's ancestor and will get with Altair in blood lines. I know that sounds like fan matchmaking but if you think about it Blood lines is supposed to explain the blood links between Altair and his descendants and Maria is supposed to appear in blood lines and is hinted to have a big part in the story. Sounds like a good story to me.

Lastname
We have any sources for the surname listed in the article? -- D. Cello 21:13, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering WHERE the last name is mentioned? -- Beirut

Well, seeing as no one is replying, could you make a move back to Maria, D. Cello? Master Sima Yi 08:19, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, it seems we have a possible source. At PSP, Maria's sword is called Maria Thorpe's Sword or something like that. -- D. Cello 21:42, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

Well, that seems good enough. Well, I'm afraid you have to make a move back then, no? Master Sima Yi 16:29, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

If this page is renamed to Maria Thorpe then shouldn't we have a disambiguation page for "Maria", with links to both this Maria and Ezio's mother Maria? -- BADavid 21:13, January 1, 2010 (GMT)

Yeah, you're right. We should. - Master Sima Yi 06:35, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Connection to Robert
I think we still have to settle what exactly her connection is to Robert. I read in Altaïr's profile, with his personality, that she is his daughter. The character is based on the actual Robert De Sable's daughter, however why would he give his own daughter a ring? That doesn't sound like a father's love to me... Altaïr 2:39, Februari 19, 2010 (UTC)

I agree her relationship to Robert is unclear, with Bloodlines mentioning her as "Robert de Sable's girl" but I assume the relationship is more a close student/teacher when she mentioned the ring was a gift when Robert "took [her] under his wing." The last name Thorpe is a Norse last name where de Sable is more French, so it's likely they're not blood related.PassiveNeoluna 03:03, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if the source was official and I can't remember where it was from. It could be from this Wiki, but it said something that she had a failed marriage and escaped to the Middle East, though that does not reveal much of her relationship with Robert. I always thought before I knew she was based on De Sable's daughter, that they were lovers, considering the ring, and if you look at their facial features, they don't seem to be that different in age either Altaïr Februari 19, 2010 (UTC)

I heard the source was from the statagy guide of the first game, but I'm not entirely sure. If it's there, is should typed on her page.PassiveNeoluna 06:43, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

I have the strategy guide in my possession. I'll take a look and see if the source is official. Then we can add this to this page perhaps. Altaïr Februari 19, 2010 (UTC)

There is indeed a profile of Maria in the strategy guide, in short she was a tomboy, parents couldn't get her to be lady, she married, but her wanderlust being too strong and she fled England discracing herself. At first she disguised her true gender, but she grew stronger, attracting the attention of Robert. He discovered her true gender, but did not care. It says she does not share the same beliefs as him. However she'll do anything for him, including dying. The strategy guide does not suggest any connection however as his daughter or lover. She is labelled as his steward but nothing more.

Then he was probably admired by her and made her his student? -- D. Cello 16:25, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Well I'll type out the full thing from the strategy guide, so it might be more clear what went on between the two:

"Maria always dreamed of being a knight. A tomboy as a child, she was often ridiculed by other children and punished by her parents for refusing to "be a lady". She dreamed of leaving England for Jerusalem. -and winning honor and glory alongside the Crusaders. Alas, her parents forced her to marry and these dreams were crushed. After little more than a year, her wanderlust had grown to be unmanageable, and she fled England (disgracing herself) to sail for the Holy Land. She disguised herself as a man and rose to prominence amongst the Crusaders, eventually attracting the attention of Robert de Sable. He quickly discovered her true gender... but didn't care. Though she does not share his beliefs, he gives her the opportunity to be who she is. He accepts her. She'll do anything for him, including dying for him and his cause if she must. Maria is serious and severe in her thoughts, words, and actions."

I've posted like a short version based on this description in her profile for her 'early life. So she is definately not his daughter. But in 'Bloodlines' it is said that she received a ring. However I don't think reasons were given why. So it is either for romantic reasons or as some reward. There is some additional information which is more about her personality. Factions says, "Robert's Steward, Knights Templar". Also in Robert's profile in the strategy guide, it doesn't mention anything at all about Maria, which would suggest that other than a professional relationship, there was nothing between them.Altaïr 18:38, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

It would be safe to assume that when she joined the Crusaders she admired Robert among other Crusaders likely, since she seems to be such a dreamer. There's a small contradiction in the describtion imo. It says she did not share his beliefs, but she does support his cause. However it's possible that this is not a contradiction depending what they mean with 'beliefs'. In the additional information it said that Maria was religious, while Robert on the other hand does not believe in God. If this is not already in Robert's profile, should we add this?Altaïr 19:01, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

There is something else that caught my interest in the strategy guide. With characters which are not fictional or not completely fictional, it gives a description about who they actually were in real life. This is not the case with Maria. So I wonder, wouldn't they have left a small description about Maria either, if she was actually based on someone? It seems rather to me that she is completely fictional as we already proved that she is at least not Robert's daughter in the game, so I wouldn't put it in her profile that she could be possibly based on De Sable's daughter.- Altaïr February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Well D. Cello as you said on another discussion. (I believe it was Robert's discussion). You think she's his student. And the ring doesn't really count as valid proof of a romantic relationship. Besides Robert likely didn't love her that much, if he sends her out to be killed by Altaïr in the cemetary. That's very romantic lol. So the ring could just be some kind of reward. So I think it's safe to say, that she was just his steward, as the guide says. So I don't think there's much point to discuss this further as there isn't any further evidence to support the theory of a romantic relationship, so I guess we'll just label her as either his steward or student. You're the admin here, it's your call. Altaïr February 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * A steward won't have the skills to fight Altaïr off and hold him while de Sable got to Arsuf, as was the plan. She was her steward, and when he discovered her gender and skill, he took her under his wing. Then let's update with this. -- D. Cello 15:45, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Well 'Steward' can mean many things according to my girlfriend, who is scottish, I'm Belgian btw. It can mean servant, or even apprentice. And when you look at the origin of the word 'steward', it seems to fit the booth. From the dictionary: "O.E. stiward, stigweard "house guardian," from stig "hall, pen" + weard "guard." Used after the Conquest as the equivalent of O.Fr. seneschal (q.v.). Meaning "overseer of workmen" is attested from c.1300. The sense of "officer on a ship in charge of provisions and meals" is first recorded mid-15c.; extended to trains 1906. This was the title of a class of high officers of the state in early England and Scotland, hence meaning "one who manages affairs of an estate on behalf of his employer" (late 14c.). The Scottish form is reflected in Stewart, name of the royal house, from Walter (the) Steward, who married (1315) Marjorie de Bruce, daughter of King Robert. The terminal -t is a Scottish form (late 14c.). Stuart is a Fr. spelling, attested from 1429 and adopted by Mary, Queen of Scots."

So in my opinion we should refer to her as 'steward' as the guide suggests, however like I said it's your call, I'm just giving my two cents on it. Altaïr February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, we know she *is* a steward, but why she can't be her student also? He was the Grand-Master of the templars, the best, he could be Maria's Al Mualim.. But go ahead, "steward" is simple. -- D. Cello 16:16, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Well I don't think we need to explain it, because it's already rather filled out who she became concerning Robert in her 'early life', while her romantic relation is also explained in the topic of 'Assassin's Creed II', I don't see a reason to duplicate that information. Only if there was some evidence if she was his daughter or her lover would it be necessary to add this. So for now I only added in 'allegiances' that she's Robert De Sable's steward (before his death). Altaïr February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Character and personality
I think the description of her character is incomplete. I put that she's straightforward, but I believe someone here can do better. PassiveNeoluna 00:12, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

I'll add something to it if I can find more information. Altaïr 00:12, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

You did a great job of elaborating Maria, Altaïr. I checked my own points and fixed my grammar to help the section somewhat.--PassiveNeoluna 01:47, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks I try to do my best to improve this Wiki and I know my grammar is flawed sometimes so thanks for fixing that Altaïr February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Marriage
Out of curiosity, is there evidence that supports the fact that she married Altair? She may have had his children but it does not necessarily mean they were wed.
 * The codex says they lived together. In practice, it's the same thing. But with more sex XD -- D. Cello 16:38, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yes but that doesn't mean they were married. That's an assumption. I agree particularly in those days it is likely they were, but I just wondered where the evidence was for it. Maria Thorpe February 20, 2010 (UTC)